sam
@sam@cablespaghetti.dev
805 following, 747 followers
https://cablespaghetti.dev/hosting-a-fediverse-instance-on-an-original-raspberry-pi.html
BT Group Explore Launch of Budget UK Mobile Brand to Complement EE https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2025/10/bt-group-explore-launch-of-budget-uk-mobile-brand-to-complement-ee.html
Word up (aaaow) it's the code word. No matter where you say it, you know that you'll be heard.
I ran out of spoons today, my Cholmondeleys. It was quite a bad one. Had a triple suckerpunch of 'things that I didn't love' happen, any one of which would have fully upended me. Fortunately my youngest is a wise old sage and said I should stop being sad and go to running club tonight. I begrudgingly (I seriously begrudged so hard) went, and had to run there and back because I'm currently carless (whisper). Horrible run there. Really miserable when I arrived. Had to engage in pleasant conversation with nice people who were nice to me (the fiends). Particularly as one of them FORCED me to write an article for the newsletter, which apparently went down well and so I had a few well-wishers. Then I ended up running with someone who I've always suspects thinks I'm a nob - she's basically a take no prisoners, suffer no fools type. Son's in the army and I suspect she thinks I'm an effete twat. She was really nice to me and I had a nice run and now I feel terrific. Stupid running. Have to watch Inside No9 now with kids. Peace! X
@TheBreadmonkey
I'm so glad you managed to be talked into going out to your running club and that it was an uplifting experience in the end. You're a winner!
Have a good night, my friend.
@TheBreadmonkey did you include something about the weekly change from running is awful I hate running to running is the best thing in the world?
I am a typical tea novice; I boil water and pour it over the tea bag (usually in a single cup).
I now most often make tea at work.
@alice though I do preheat my thermos bottle with boiling water before use - both for tea and coffee.
@alice The thermal mass of the water is always going to be several times that of the mug, so I'm not really worried about losing heat to the mug.
@alice no, though on the occasions I drink tea, it’s typically a Japanese/Chinese green tea, rather than the classic English cuppa
@alice I don't. And I primarily make green tea which benefits from a cooler steep temperature anyway.
@alice (please let me know if I start rambling...) Okay so, it really depends on the tea whether or not you want or should. In contrast to what might seem to be the case, certain types of tea actually prefer "cooler" water - instead of near boiling. It can in fact severely alter the taste. Though not always, the more younger and floral the taste the lower the temperature should be. If it's dried tea leaves, it usually is higher (closer to boiling)
That said, the proces of preheating your cup...
@aprazeth I typically drink black tea and steep it around 185°F. More delicate teas I'll steep closer to 170 or 160, and particularly robust ones I'll steep at boiling.
It also depends on the quality. With most bagged tea it hardly matters because it's all dust and fannings, but with higher quality loose-leaf tea, process becomes much more important to the final quality of the cup.
@alice oh indeed. But let's not open that can of worms (filtered water, loose leaves or a container , steeping in a cup or glass, or in a teapot, time to steep)
@alice
No, but I do sometimes preheat my thermos.
My trick is that the kettle heats the water to 100C, but the tea only needs around 70C. So I pour some of the water into the thermos, heating up while cooling the water slightly. I then use the water for the first cup of tea, and pour the remaining 100C water into the thermos.
That makes the thermos keep the water hot for longer, and the slightly colder water is better for brewing tea.
@alice I tend to drink green tea, so it's not really ideal that the temperature be too hot anyway.
But I do my actual steeping with loose leaf in a separate mini kettle made of a thin glass, so it pretty much reaches full temperature right away anyway.
@alice So, I don't steep my tea in the cup. I steep enough for two cups at a time, in a... okay, it's technically also a cup, but not what you were talking about. It's one of those 22 oz. stainless-steel-outside, plastic-interior keeps-heat-in coffee cups. Anyway, I just throw boiling water over tea bags in that, then when it's steeped, I put a couple of ice cubes in my actual tea cup and pour the still-too-hot tea over that, then it's cool enough to drink.
@alice a. There needs to be an option that just says "What?"
b. I now believe I am not a "tea drinker."
@alice I always boil enough water to warm the cup first. I honestly don’t know if it makes a difference, but I do it anyway.
@alice
I sometimes rinse my mug with boiling water to get rid of small leaves and whatnot (I don't clean it after every use), but not specificaly to prefeat it.
ADHD: I struggle with repetitive things
Autism: I struggle with new things
AuDHD: I struggle...
@catsalad I’m in the process of being diagnosed with the double (I’ve never been formally diagnosed with either) at 37 years old
The weekend is close, I don't feel like I have energy to work on my little(?) game, so I'm going to try and do the weirdest Windows 3.1 setup out there.
@nina_kali_nina If all else fails, I've recently installed Win 3.11 and Win95 on a 386SX-16 with mTCP's amazing netdrive.
@nina_kali_nina 3.11 on 6.20 > 3.1 on 6.22
@nina_kali_nina I installed this combination a few times. During this phase of my life, frequent impressions somehow burned themselves into my brain, so that even today, when I am reminded of them and close my eyes, I can still see them like an afterimage on my retina. A bit like a catchy tune. So thank you for that. 😁
@nina_kali_nina never installed win3.11. thx for reminding me. 486 would be appropriate, yes? :)
First step of getting cool Win 3.1 install these days is VBESVGA driver. Kudos to https://github.com/PluMGMK/vbesvga.drv
I think 16M colours looks pretty great, but it is noticeably slower than 256 colours.
@nina_kali_nina Real hardware? I recently ran Win95/3.11 on a VLB S3 968 with 4MB RAM on 1280x1024x64k and 1600x1200x256 ... in fact ran quite snappy (but I also blame that on the Pentium Overdrive running at 100MHz).
I should still give that driver a try ... the ATI VGA wonder drivers for Win 3.11 never worked on my 386SX-16.
@lunte161 for my twisted purposes, I'm running it in a really fast emulator. But I really should've started it on a Pentium 3 I have in storage...
@nina_kali_nina That's ok :) Also have 95/98/XP virtual machines with the later getting some actual use rather often (runs an older Altera Quartus + Programmer since I never upgraded from the LPT Byteblaster)
If you follow me, you probably know that there's an open-source clone of Windows NewShell for 3.1 called Calmira. There's a version called Calmira XP, which looks really out of the place on 3.1. But my goal is to get the most unhinged, sick, abominable, overpowered and power-hungry Windows 3.1 install, so here we go.
A bit of a technicality, but it makes a lot of sense in terms of UX: doslfn to add Long File Name support in Calmira, and IFA to add Long File Name support to the basic Windows applications.
And while we're at it, let's get some sort of a wallpaper. This one is 256 colours, because Paintbrush 3.x and Paint 95+ aren't really compatible, and the only way I can convert images to this old system (for now) is ImageMagick gif 256 colours -> pcx -> bmp
Shocking Windows 3.1 development continues. Now I have win32s, which will allow me to run some Win32 applications on top of DOS and Win16 kernel. Freecell looks like any other app, but it is Win32 app, very MVP.
And IE 5.0 is being installed but still needs a bit of tweaking. It has a 128-bit encryption module, but it's useless, because no one supports SSL anymore.
Note WinRAR behind the IE50 installer.
@nina_kali_nina Don't forget 16-bit Flash plugin, though zombo.com unfortunately doesn't serve the .swf file any more.
@jernej__s there are sites that still do, but HTTPS is going to be an issue
@nina_kali_nina "Microsoft VM for Win 3.1/Win NT 3.51" oh goodness, I had no idea that existed... somehow I assumed that the Forbidden JVM™ was exclusive to the 32-bit OSes.
(This is 16-bit IE5, right? Or is IE5 one of the 32-bit applications for which you installed Win32s?)
@dgelessus I know, right? Impressive :) This is a 16-bit IE5; I think 32-bit IE5 requires too much stuff from Windows 98.
It's taking longer than it should have, but I have working TCP/IP on Windows 3.1, and it plays along with IE 5.0. Google stopped supporting IE5 recently, but I learned about Wiby not that long ago, and I like it.
But we're far from being done.
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt woah wiby looks cool
also i suppose google want to cut down on having so many legacy code paths
@tauon they used to take pride in supporting legacy browsers, but it was done by a single volunteer or something. Kind of like Facebook-over-Tor.
@nina_kali_nina Ohh, I’d completely forgotten about my old hobby of editing the registry to add personal messages to the IE title bar!
@nina_kali_nina install Netscape
@Lydie I'm afraid IE5 is superior to any Netscape available on non-NT 3.1 :(
Okay, this is the most cursed Windows 3.1 screenshot so far. I'm not saying things are working, but I'm not saying they're not working either. Sort of a limbo.
@nina_kali_nina makes me want to make a NetZero simulator that gives you a random bad banner ad or whatever that you can't remove from your screen in exchange for functional networking. Homebrew malware? hm.
@nina_kali_nina
Wow, imagine showing this to someone in '92.
@FritzAdalis some rich people had SVGA displays in 1992 :) But yeah, impressive
@nina_kali_nina
idk I had svga in '92 and I was broke. It's easy when you make bad financial decisions.
Sometimes it feels like Microsoft intentionally made Win32s incompatible with lots of apps (or the other way around). Only Calc and Real Audio player from Windows 95 are working with Win32s - even Freecell doesn't. Despite it being almost the same thing as Freecell shipped with Win32s itself.
Woah, a CD-based game for Windows 3.1! Released in 1997, "Pilot Bros" comes with win32s on the CD, and has music, video and audio that all work under Windows 3.1. From what I can tell, it is highly inspired by Gobliiins
@nina_kali_nina Wait. You haven't seen this before?
@dosnostalgic Correct. I was told that it wouldn't work on our 486 with EGA. I bet the game would complain about the video mode...
@nina_kali_nina Yeah, there could have been a few issues. 🤔
@nina_kali_nina Huh, I didn't know 1С made games too, I had only known about their, uh, other business.
Day 2 of abnormal Windows 3.1 functions. Internet Explorer 5 decided to stop working after I tweaked some thing, so it's Netscape Navigator time. It looks so sleek...
(What you're seeing here is Windows 3.1 with Calmira XP shell that adds taskbar and desktop, and a VBESVGA driver)
There is an X11 server for Windows 3.1, but it only supports telnet or rsh. I think some of my X11 apps would have been working, if only my network was working correctly.
While I'm thinking about other unhinged things to do with this half-broken unusual Windows 3.1 install, here's some QuickTime for you.
As mentioned before, Windows 3.1 has very limited compatibility with 32-bit applications, including Paint from Windows 95. However, it can run Paint from Chicago just fine. It cannot run Chicago's Notepad, but Paint sort of works. Neat.
@nina_kali_nina Nice! Should also try the 32bit Apps from NT 3.x and 4x 😊
@elosha NT 3 NewShell was a flop, and NT 4 is two years newer than Chicago, so I don't have much hopes about it...
Okay, this totally should count as an abomination. I associate Space Cadet Pinball with Windows XP, because it was not shipped with Windows 95/98 by default.
But this Space Cadet is actually a win32s application from 1995, and works just fine on Windows 3.1. It looks especially "normal" because of Calmira XP adding Windows XP decorations to Win 3.1. The only tell is window title bars. Woah.
@nina_kali_nina would 3D Movie Maker even work on that setup of yours? I'm intrigued by the heck of a monster you created there.
@Ronflaix it very well might, released in 1995, so there are chances it wasn't using DirectX just yet!
Edit: yes, it's WinG, should totally work on Windows 3.1
@nina_kali_nina while it's now open source thanks to @foone and al. (https://github.com/microsoft/Microsoft-3D-Movie-Maker) I don't know if that version of the repo would be helpful to compile a Win16 version.
Though, in my laptop there's still the CD for the French version I kept forgetting I'd eventually dump for Foone. Would that even be helpful in any case for testing?
Edit: should be in the tray. I have to check later
@nina_kali_nina
I presently associate Space Cadet Pinball with anything that has a CPU
@ozzelot these days, yeah...
Okay, I figured out what to do with the network, and I have semi-working X11 on my abomination of Windows 3.1. It is so unstable I had to reboot at least 20 times to take these two screenshots.
@nina_kali_nina wait just a second...x11, on windows, whaaaaat?
@esoteric_programmer there is also X11 server for DOS. It only supports old versions of X11, so it's suitable for period-correct access to SunOS and such.
@nina_kali_nina @esoteric_programmer Pointers? It's not DV/X, right? Even OS/2 has an X server - PMX - which I'm using daily^Wweekly :D
@ltning @esoteric_programmer there was Desqview/X, yes, but there was also Xappeal - a commercial fork of XFree86 with no sources
@nina_kali_nina Next make it run a VM, running Solaris running Internet Explorer ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AoyQeUzbEU
I was trying to do something about Java on Windows 3.1, and I sort of did. First things first, JRE doesn't work. Even when forced to install, it doesn't work. It relies on MSVCRT and long file name support in the kernel, which... Is not great. But I won't give up.
Both Netscape 4 and IE 5.0 have Java 1.1 support, so I can run some Java programs if I explain the browsers how to run them.
But there aren't that many Java 1.1 programs, are there...
While I'm thinking about Java on Windows 3.1, here are some more unusual things for my cursed setup: fMSX, an emulator of an MSX/MSX2 home computer, and notGNU - an emacs clone.
There are many interesting programs for Win3.1 I'm skipping for now, like Photoshop, or CorelDraw, or POVRAY and various 3D editors, or MathCad, or AutoCAD...
But those are programs that people used to run "normally". This time I'm trying to find rare gems or do things that most people won't :D
Windows 95 Paint still couldn't handle my 24-bit BMP, so I had to install Photoshop and convert the wallpaper into Win-3.1-24-bit-BMP with it. Now this Win3.1 install is 20% cooler.
Huh. I didn't know 95 changed the BMP format.
@argv_minus_one worse still, Windows 3.0 and Windows 3.1 BMP aren't always compatible. And then there are OS/2 BMPs...
Was it *backward* compatible, at least?
(By “backward compatible” I mean Windows 95 can read BMPs from 3.1, 3.1 can read BMPs from 3.0, etc.)
@argv_minus_one generally, yes!
@nina_kali_nina @argv_minus_one
A reference on BMP types.
Includes a version that is: vaguely specified, never seen in a wild, not created by anything, read by a single program (from the reference's author).
Yes, it's never that simple!
https://entropymine.com/jason/bmpsuite/bmpsuite/html/bmpsuite.html
@nina_kali_nina I said it yesterday and I say it today, this is soooo coooool!!
Please never delete this installation (is it a VM? or actual hardware?)
@apposada thanks! I think this installation is meant to be a lesson and not an artifact:) so, most likely, I'll delete it one day~
@nina_kali_nina Hmmmmm...... Now I have the feeling that I really should fix my old tower...
The main board in it died, but I already had a replacement.
Exchangeable disks, at least disk sets for W98SE and DR-DOS.
@AngelaScholder why not multiple disks and multiboot? ;)
@nina_kali_nina LOL! Different era. That system in the configuration it is, I guess is 25 years old. Maybe a little less.
The tower originally is from '93, initially an AMD 386DX40 with an extra large 170MB disk, via 486DX4-120 to I think it's a P166 installed now.
Disks probably between 1.2GB to 2GB.
Yep, that tower definitely has some history.
Doing the changes, install new things incl. OS certainly was a lot of fun and learning.
Also Red Hat a while in the 90s, OS/2 2.1, Warp.
@nina_kali_nina why a clone of emacs when you can set up vim? According to https://www.mirrorservice.org/pub/vim/pc/README vim 7.3 was the last version to ship a win32s build. I'm not sure if you can just run the setup program or if you need to assemble an install from the binary and runtime archives
@pulkomandy I have real Emacs too, it just doesn't work. :(
@nina_kali_nina it looks like there is a version of Smalltalk also: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2244
@nina_kali_nina I wonder if you could get the original 2001 release of RuneScape to run in Java 1.1
@CursedSilicon if it used to run on Java 1.1 and available, it would run!
@nina_kali_nina *Apparently* (read: Googling it real quick) it needed Java 1.1.5?
Or at least the RS Wiki linked to that version
So maaaaaybe?
@CursedSilicon that could be a biiit difficult but I'll see what I can do
@nina_kali_nina At the time, Microsoft wanted people to move from 3.1 to 95, so they intentionally did not support Java on 3.1. But IBM still had OS/2 with Windows support, so IBM itself came out with a version of Java for Windows 3.x. MS was pissed. So there might be the IBM version of Java still floating out there somewhere.
@charette Editing for clarity: in 1996-97? Absolutely. But shortly after both MS and Netscape shipped browsers with JVM, so, my IE 5 has Java support, and in fact better Java support than Windows 95B had out of the box. :> But for some reason it doesn't want to accept signed jar files.
@charette this is nice info, thanks!
@nina_kali_nina Why say "that's not true"? I was working at IBM at the time. I was an OS/2 developer back then.
@charette that's because I misunderstood your message, sorry. At first I read "at that time" as "back in the 90s" in general, not "when java was hotness of 96-97". But that's not what you meant...
@nina_kali_nina is this a cry for help
@thomholwerda thankfully everything is okay now :D I'm not planning to port Java to a weird platform _again_, not this time
@nina_kali_nina I associate it with Windows NT 4 because the first time I encountered it was on my father's Windows NT 4 work laptop. 😌
@nina_kali_nina I mostly played this on Windows 95, but IIRC it wasn't included with the OS. You had to get "Plus!", which also included Hover!
Well, now I want a Windows 3.1 theme for KDE Plasma.
@argv_minus_one why Plasma when you can use all your KDE apps with progman: https://github.com/jcs/progman
@nina_kali_nina I never used XP, but I played Space Cadet Pinball because it shipped with NT4. I’m really surprised it worked with win32s and NT but not the systems that were half way between the two.
@david_chisnall I suppose it works on 9x, but it wasn't a part of the standard distribution.
I also blame my mild pinball addiction on this game.
@nina_kali_nina im not sure if i was aware that windows 3.1 programs run on xp would still have the old title bar
@kirakira the buttons in the bar were a part of a video driver in Win16 (what? yes!) so the apps running in Win32 will have default boring title bars
Folks should keep in mind Win32s wasn't "just" a compatibility layer to run Windows 95/NT apps on Windows 3.1 - it came out a couple of years before Windows 95 and helped to get around 16 bit memory limitations while still running on limited hardware.
If you were very online, you might be using 32 bit versions of Netscape Navigator, mIRC, Trumpet, and IrfanView all alongside each other. It was pretty normal to be daily driving apps under Win32s and Winsock, so it's not just this abomination you are showing here, but many of us lived like this.
@vestige yup! This is why I don't consider Trumpet and Netscape abominations. IE5 on Win 3 is a bit too much though, and then anything else retrofitted definitely is a stretch :D
@nina_kali_nina I seem to recall there was a compatibility thing one could install in 3.1 that actually increased 32-bit compatibility a lot. WinG I think it was?
@nazokiyoubinbou WinG is a proto-DirectX thing; it offers fast blits between RAM and VideoRAM; DX in comparison also offers blits between VRAM and VRAM. Win32s offers compatibility, and then there are bonus MFC3.0, OLE2, Shell32 and MSVCRT20+MSVCRT40 with Win32s support - if you look for them.
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt does this mean you can reexport the wallpaper in glorious full colour
@tauon I can... should I?
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt it would be cool. might help sell the windows xp look more too i think there's also a program that lets you edit the icons in the title bar but i can't find it by searching
@tauon the driver is open source, so at least in theory it should be possible to recompile. I can also edit the resources manually. But I don't think resources will look very good...
@nina_kali_nina a game of Operation: Inner Space?
https://sdispace.com/index.html
That was still supporting Windows 3.1 in the year 2022
@nina_kali_nina Omg I had to wait 2025 and know this !! When i'll have some time I'll test with a 3.11 VM with TCP/IP or with my real 3.11 computer...!!
@scalonnec for the record: I have TCP/IP working, but it is 86 Box SLiRP - I need proper networking, otherwise my VM isn't visible from outside. I have bridging working in Qemu, but Xonnet (and other Win32s apps) doesn't work in Qemu. :< I hope you'll have better result on a real PC!
@nina_kali_nina @scalonnec Bridging in 86box should work just fine, you just need to install npcap in winpcap-compatible mode.
@jernej__s @scalonnec I'm on Mac OS :<
@nina_kali_nina @scalonnec PCap should work on macOS, too, according to the docs.
@nina_kali_nina I recall using WeirdX on 95 or 98 back then, but do we have a JVM for 3.1? 😅
https://web.archive.org/web/20250220140358/jcraft.com/weirdx/
@mmu_man we have JVM that is shipped with IE50. I'm not sure if it has everything necessary to run this one....
I have a question that I have unanswered since 1994. How do you achieve those pseudo-3D look on the forms under windows 3.1? Most of the time they appear boring, white, flat. But some apps like MS Word, somehow, achieve the (I don't really know the name on English) grayish raised 3D windows, with real buttons and widgets.
I was told it's win32s, but I don't remember MS Word being shipped with that.
@beckermatic the buttons are drawn in software, different UI toolkits draw buttons differently. There were at least toolkits from MS and Borland. I suppose Word used something similar!
@nina_kali_nina putty and X forwarding ?
@nina_kali_nina thoroughly enjoying this thread, thanks! :)
So... how come your copy of Netscape is German?
Personal preference, random chance, the only archived version, or something else entirely?
@usuallyharmless it was on a website with cute win32s applications. I don't mind German versions, I've used German Windows 95 for a short while.
@nina_kali_nina I might still have a couple games for 3.1... Myst for sure, I'll have to search for more. LMK if You're interested in ISO images...
I have disquettes too, if they even still work. I recall a project to recover old diskettes that used advanced recovery techniques... I still have a few 3.5in drives and an open slot on my computer :)
PM if interested.
@nina_kali_nina oh my gods
on 3.1
this is the purest - i don't need to tell you, but I'm just saying - of batshittery, well done
it wasn't intentional incompatibility tho', it was that getting win32s to happen _at all_ in a 3.1 framework was a nightmare but we (msft) needed some way to give access to full 32-bit to keep certain classes of app developers interested in windows when NT and 95 weren't even CLOSE to ready
"remember, the 's' stands for 'sux'" comes out of microsoft systems group, i am just telling you
(see also intel 386sx but win32s was, well)
(95 was a whole story in and of itself, team NT was lying a LOT about when they could deliver and 95 kinda started as a rogue project)
my brain hurts just looking at this xD
@moira fair enough, fair enough :D I remember the biggest pain of Win32s vs non-Win32s exe was how dynamic loading was implemented?
@nina_kali_nina I was not directly involved but I knew people who were and yes, that was absolutely part of it. Did learn a lot from the experience, though; that's part of why Win95 worked so well. Win32s may've had the suck but set, but Win95 was a goddamn miracle.
There ended up being a lot of hidden "thunker" DLL layers which would invisibly interact between the two user spaces and serve as translators, and also minimise the number of mode transitions, which was incredibly important for processor architecture reasons. (The mode switching was _not fast_ so if you didn't get _very clever_ with it, you'd drop _so much_ performance on the floor. Minimising mode transitions was critical.)
or that's how I remember it, anyway.
@nina_kali_nina PARTICULARLY if you had to drop to real mode, which you almost always had to do if you were doing ANYTHING network related. Going to "real" (8088) mode and back was... 100% _yikes_.
@moira at least it wasn't targeting a 286 CPU with no* return from the protected mode :D
@nina_kali_nina win32s, "windows on windows?" Win32 subsystem? remaps win32 API calls to win16, does the same for callbacks, runs each 32 bit process in its own protected memory space (I think). Was designed so you could write a single app for Windows 3.x and Windows NT 3.1, probably as soon as windows 95 "chicago" shipped they stopped work on it-so any new API call added is missing
Win95 is its own ugly hack considering the kernel itself runs on DOS.
@stevel close but not quite. Win32s cannot overcome win16 kernel limitations, therefore requires programs to have a relocation section, and doesn't offer any stronger protections than original win16 apps have. Win95 is far nicer than Win32s in terms of implementation!
@nina_kali_nina explorer.exe under win32s looks better than progman.exe did under 95-98 (I can't remember if it was present in ME, having never used it (thank Godzilla!))
@avatastic I couldn't run explorer.exe from Win95, perhaps I need a newshell version from NT....
@nina_kali_nina ahhh, there was thread preceding what I replied to.
Of course I should have recognised that as XP (and thusly a clone) rather than 9x explorer.exe.
I'd not expect much, if anything NT based to run under win32s.
Something from OS/2 otoh...
@nina_kali_nina I guess you could curse the browser with all the malware toolbars you can find or is that too easy?
anyway, with that thought i think i'll leave you with a nos da.
(:
@avatastic it would be difficult, because all the malware expects win32! :D I don't think there were any bars supporting IE5 on Win16
@nina_kali_nina Makes sense that browser extensions wouldn't be made compatible, it'd be a great way to force people into the ActiveX plugin ecosystem.
@nina_kali_nina It is relatively embarrassing how bad x11/xfree86 was at color map management compared to windows 3.1 on 8bpp VGA.
@vestige @nina_kali_nina There‘s a difference, as X11 gives each Window its own palette, opposing to Windows, a standard palette was used for the whole screen and developers could pre-dither their images for perfection.
There are X11 versions that, together with the right apps, deliver a palette that looks like the current window has 16bpp, perfect, obviously the rest of the screen colours glitches out.
@nina_kali_nina how in hell did you get the XP panel in 3.1? Cursed is an understatement!
@justin it is not me, the work is all done by Calmira XP creators. This is basically a thing that is made from scratch in Pascal. IIRC it still worked in Windows 10, so it might be a nice lightweight alternative to JavaScript Start menu in Windows 11.
@nina_kali_nina does https://html.duckduckgo.com/html work? It's HTML only.
@justin the problem is usually HTTPS, not HTML versions, but I'll give it a try in a moment.
@justin yep, html.duckduckgo.com refuses to talk over HTTP
@nina_kali_nina IIRC the application providing TCP/IP on Windows 3.1 was called Trumpet Winsock or something like that, is that what you used?
Edit: It was right there on the screenshot 😀
@nina_kali_nina OTOH that taskbar looks nothing like what I recall from 3.1...
@dermoth this is Calmira XP, there wasn't any toolbar in 3.1, and that's the point of this pointless exercise :D
@nina_kali_nina are you familiar with @jwz's "Run Some Old Web Browsers" work? https://www.jwz.org/blog/2008/03/happy-run-some-old-web-browsers-day/
@nina_kali_nina Throwing it out there since it might be a fun addition for a cracked out Win3.11 install
Me and other folks are putting together a whole ass "retro internet" service. Win3.11 and IE 5 are roughly the "minimum level of supported" I've been personally testing
https://wiki.cursedsilicon.net/wiki/Compu-Global-Hyper-Mega-Net
@CursedSilicon hmmm, I have much smaller systems, like 8 and 16 bits, would it make sense to access the retro thing you're making from them?
@nina_kali_nina there is also http://frogfind.com/, wonder if it works in your extremely cursed Win31
@glebd it used to have issues for the last 6 months, last time I checked it was down. Glad that it's back, and of course it works!
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt also i wonder if you could backport paint 95 to 3.1
@tauon I think it is possible, and I will try.
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt oh wait of course, there's that compatibility layer thing, right?
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt oh. you can't do that without the source code obviously. which is illegal and i would never suggest illegal things
@nina_kali_nina this is genuinely so cool, I need mainstream UIs/UXs to take a look back into what they used to be.
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt also, what's with this thing that looks like a jpeg? or did they just convert it to a bmp in a different way
@nina_kali_nina Playing along on real hardware ...finally gave Calmira a spin after being aware of it for almost 20 years.
@lunte161 niiiice! Thanks for sharing! Any cool/sick hacks I should try? :)
@nina_kali_nina Have to admit my Win 3.11 expertise is quite limited. MicroMan is a slightly entertaining game tho with an interesting backstory and developer.
@lunte161 oh, I never heard about it! But it looks interesting.
@nina_kali_nina Started out as a techdemo for flicker free animation for Windows and got a modern remake in the early 2000s. Used to be quite popular as a shareware game "back then". The developer later worked on Blood.
@nina_kali_nina I don't (yet) follow you, but I do have like two computers with a Win 3.x installed. Unfortunately IIRC Calmira needs a 386 or I'd have put it on the 286 with Win 3.1 :P
(The other 3.x is a WFW 3.11 on a Pentium 233 with 256MB of RAM ... that thing never really runs out of RAM, you just run out the 16-bit segment descriptors, which i just find so funny)
@urja Calmira is written in Pascal, and the sources are available, so it should be possible to recompile it for 286. However, it is very slow even on my 386 machines, so I wouldn't recommend. :)
@nina_kali_nina I did not know. But now I had to test. This is indeed cursed.
@ltning I should patch the video driver to change the appearance of the UI even further to make it even more cursed xD
@nina_kali_nina Speaking of video drivers - is it true that the only way to tell a Windows 3.x driver to use small fonts at high resolutions is to patch the driver itself - meaning that each video driver has to be patched individually?
As you can see the window controls in Win-OS/2 are obscenely large. It uses the same size for everything 1024 and up, so at 1024 the controls take up like a quarter of the screen. :D
@ltning it's not exactly true but not false either; each driver installs their own bitmap system fonts, but it is possible to overwrite the fonts from a different driver on an existing system.
@nina_kali_nina I don't have anything fun or smart to say but I love this! It is definitely wrong somehow. I will try to keep up with your posts now, that background image was cool.
@nina_kali_nina I was there 3000 years ago when Windows 3.1 was unleashed on the world and the age of VESA drivers began.
@sashabilton except there _wasn't_ a real VESA driver for Windows 3.1 a year ago. The driver I'm using was released on the 15th of December 2024.
@nina_kali_nina am I having false memory syndrome? (3000 years is quite a long time). I have this memory of installing vespa drivers and them scrolling by on startup on my '93 486 DX.
@sashabilton there were SVGA drivers for _some_ cards, but the majority of SVGA cards were released in Win95+ era and didn't have Windows 3.1 drivers. There was a VESA patch for Windows 3.1, but it breaks DOS-mode support and still doesn't work on many cards.
@nina_kali_nina my machine at that point was a homebrew, as I was at uni and building your own computer was a bit of ritual. I seem to remember having a high end graphics card, and I probably had a boot to dos disk config that disabled vesa, to play Master Of Magic in 1994.
@nina_kali_nina Nice.. I bet it's not as slow as installing Windows 3.0 on a 8086 (640kb).
And against all bets and common sense it actually worked... somewhat (have to be patient while it slowly draw that window, then crunch for a while to display each icon!)
On top of not having enough RAM I still had to load hymem.sys (I think?) that not only did not allow any of that memory above 640kb to be accessed (since it wasn't there) but also reduced the remaining RAM available 🤦
@dermoth Windows 3 on an XT is a pain, yes. But there is meaning in having himem on a XT: it is possible to have a EMS card, and Windows really, really hoped you'd get it :D
@nina_kali_nina Thank you for this. I have a netbook with FreeDos and could try to install Win 3.11.
@zbrando I have to say that FreeDos is a fair deal slower than MS-DOS, unfortunately :( But it is still fun!
@nina_kali_nina Oh really? I didn't have time to try it really well and compare. How do you install MS DOS and Win 3.11 on "modern" hardware without floppies?
@zbrando that's a very general question :D there are many options, common would be local network, USB and CD. My weapon of choice would be installing grub on USB, using floppy emulator in it to boot into DOS, format the hard disk and install the OS, and finally bring the USB drivers to DOS - either with a custom floppy image, or by booting into a live Linux.
@nina_kali_nina I wonder if Microsoft ever sent out that FREE Windows newsletter, and if any scans of it exist
Finnish broadcasting company (YLE) started this year's Pentulive on Tuesday. It is a live stream following English springer spaniel Muru and her 11 puppies, who were born on Tuesday.
If you need something nice to replace endless doomscrolling, here's an alternative for you ☺️
https://areena.yle.fi/1-76362374
#pentulive #koirat #dogs #DogsOfMastodon #puppies #spaniel #EnglishSpringerSpaniel
Episode 66 of Linux Matters: Terminal Full of Sparkles 🐧️🎙️
Martin found a fancy alternative to apt, Mark debugged his car charger, and Alan moved from Plex to Jellyfin.
@linuxmatters Hey guys, thanks for the pointer to nala. The color-coded explanations are very helpful for noobs! (While I have been running Ubuntu for seven years now, and have pi's all over the house, I feel that I will be a perpetual linux noob.) Love the show.
Ok.. I still need to fill a few gaps, but my sleeper build is working great and honestly has great airflow and temps seem good.
I'm running #bazzite #linux on it and it's running things like Forza horizon on ultra with no thermal issues.
I'm curious, what are some ways to benchmark or stress the system to see the thermal limits of the GPU and CPU? How does one test this besides throwing games at it?
Is there a standard bench-marking tool?
@codemonkeymike On windows I always used FurMark and Prime95
But using that inside of any virtualization layer is not a good idea I think ...
GPU seems to be: https://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/ if asked in https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/x4jleb/whats_a_gpu_stress_test_or_benchmark_software_for/
For CPUs seems to be "stress" https://linux.die.net/man/1/stress
@codemonkeymike "sleeper"?
I have an Ubuntu server with steam set up to run headless. I just turn it on with wake on lan, and have a wireguard connection from my phone.
Coupled with my backbone one that makes for at excellent gaming experience
@rasmus91 sleeper like it looks like a bone stock Pentium 4 windows XP machine. But inside is a liquid cooled i9 and Nvidia 1080ti
It's silly but fun
@codemonkeymike yeah, that's fun.
I have an i9 too (9th gen, but still)
But my graphics card is an GTX 970 😅
Its not quite up to snuff anymore
@codemonkeymike for GPUs I've used Unigine benchmarks/demos: https://benchmark.unigine.com/ and for CPUs I've used PerformanceTest: https://www.passmark.com/products/performancetest/index.php. Both run on Linux of course, although PerformanceTest depends on an old version of ncurses.
@codemonkeymike
phoronix test suite
I used to run Linux on all my home machines back in the day, but in recent years I've been a really basic boy with a Windows 10 machine that's used for:
- Steam, GoG and Epic games launchers
- Web browser (esp. watching streaming video)
- Email client
I think the time has come to ditch Windows again. With which Linux distro am I going to have the best “plug and play” experience?
@krans I recall @gamingonlinux had an article a while back showing that many Windows games now ran better on Linux, with proton, than they did natively on Win11
@krans
Mint or Fedora probably. I prefer Mint (Debian Edition) as it just works for me with no fucking around. I don't have much experience of using Fedora but people who prefer rpm based systems wax on about it being good out of the box.
Have your personal data been exposed in a company's personal data breach?
| Yes: | 2190 |
| Maybe later: | 1043 |
Closed
@neil Most likely (almost) everyone using Internet has been exposed in some of the many data breaches.
https://haveibeenpwned.com lists 15,109,169,472 accounts from 911 websites & data leaks. That is a lot, and there likely are millions more than that.
@autiomaa @neil I've been thinking the same thing, almost all these "Maybe later" answers either don't know their data has been exposed or live in the forest, bartering for anything they need and with with nothing more than one email account and their fediverse account (luckily neither of which were broken yet).
You don't even have to be online, lots of data breaches happened though banks, credit scoring agencies, insurers, utilities, etc. even if all you ever used was plain paper and mail.
@neil Looks like 32% (currently) of the people responding to this poll are unaware that their personal data have been exposed in a data breach. 😉
(There are two kinds of people on the Internet. People whose data has been exposed in a breach, and people who don't know their data has been exposed in a breach.)
@neil *tries to count the number of times they got something in the mail about a data breach*
Am American.
@neil Mine has been exposed a negative number of times, but that might be because I kept a count in a signed integer and it's overflowed.
@neil You seem to have placed this as a "yes/no" question; I was thinking more of a slider how many, or a set of options going at least into multiple dozens, to capture the fidelity of companies losing your data scot-free.
@neil my medical data is floating around on the dark web somewhere weeee. 🙃
https://www.dutchnews.nl/2025/08/cancer-screening-hack-far-bigger-than-thought-agency-says/
@neil I'm pretty sure every US citizen has had their data exposed if they're over the age of 20-something. The credit leaks in the 2010s were so bad that it exposed about 1/3rd of the citizen's data and we never heard directly about which people in particular were impacted. Most adults were advised to freeze their credit and to only thaw when planning to make a big purchase (which is generally good advice in the states anyway.)
@neil I remember getting letters from both the MOD (Armed Forces recruitment data breach / laptop left on a train) and the Student Loans Company, both in early-2010s, about potentially having had my personal data breached.
That's right... I was doing it before GDPR came along and everyone else started thinking it was cool and doing it too.
@neil someone logged into my Discord and spammed crypto ads to every server I was a member of, ironically when I was in the middle of getting rid of old passwords and migrating to KeePassXC. I just forgot Discord.
@neil @lisamelton Does the US government count as a company? If so, every US citizen is a yes just in the last year.
And like others have said, it’s likely that just about anyone with any online or credit exposure should be a yes before that and worldwide.
@neil none, that I was made aware of (or got aware from data abuse). However, browsing standard tracker-poisend websites is kind of such a breach, even if legalized by most jurisdictions...
@neil shamely i have been exposed twice this year for what i know,
- french administration of unemployment let go datas of 10 millions people including personnel adresses, phone contact, etc.
- telecom leader Bouygues Telecom had to admit that they have let a leak in personal datas of their customers.
@neil I take « company » and raise you « my government » with a side of « on more than one occasion »
@neil ah damn it i should've voted "yes" but years of dealing with "yes or remind me later" type shit from tech companies has trained me to just automatically hit the later button on sight
@neil I believe the answer should be basically 99% yes. Since a lot of people don't even know about the data breach.
But trust me, your data has been breached already.
@neil
Ben Türkiye'de yaşıyorum. Bizim kişisel verilerimize erişmek, buzdolabındaki süte erişmek kadar kolay.
I live in Türkiye. Accessing our personal data is easy as accessing the milk in the refrigerator.
Lenovo Thinkpad X220, small portable fast linux laptop £60
#ebay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/146864526532?
They said in their release notes that this license key program has been wildly successful but I wish they were transparent about exactly how well this funding model is working. I'd like to see some real numbers.
Time for a second attempt at moving off google photos maybe…
I moved all our data out of Apple Photos / iCloud. First round was my own manual method, then I learned you can request a backup of your data from Apple and they'll email you special download links to giant Zip files. Those can natively be imported by the immich-go cli program.
All my RAW photos are NFS mounted readonly and added as an "External Library" so it can't mess with them.
On my phone I made an iOS Shortcut that can auto add-to-album real photos I took and not just memes I saved, and then only those are synced. Makes it easier to keep the garbage from getting into my photo archive.
@sam You've only just learned that? 🤣 I learnt that a while ago.
3x72: in which the OpenSSF are making some noise about how open infrastructure is not sustainable, and they have some thoughts... and so do we!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCf75M-Mspc
https://badvoltage.org/3x72
Roses are red
Violets are blue
To save and quit vim
Use :wq
@neil And yet one should definitely say
as a proper preamble
if you use the w blindly, do so and pray
because that is a serious gamble.
Windows is low on memory at Heathrow airport…
Cc: @slowe@mastodon.me.uk
Here’s a screen at Starbucks with a double whammy of Windows that isn’t activated and a crashed application.
This is a pretty sad hobby but I’m enjoying myself and so I will continue.
@sam keep up the good work. Here's my entry #brokenpubliccomputers
Openreach Give ISPs 48 Hours to Remove Lithium Batteries from UK Exchanges https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2025/09/openreach-give-isps-48-hours-to-remove-lithium-batteries-from-uk-exchanges.html
@ispreview Wow that's going to be tricky - there are some SAN systems which have an embedded UPS in each SAN head and rely on them for consistency.
I don't mean the little cache batteries either; chunky ones like: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185128363545
I wonder which exchange set on fire for them to do that urgent requirement 🙂
Binyamin Netanyahu’s long haul to New York to ‘avoid arrest’
Little, even tiny things to hearten my morning
Before you vote in a general election, do you read the manifesto of all the parties or even the party You plan to vote for?
Feel free to boost 🚀
| No. I read nothing: | 5 |
| I read a bit of the manifesto: | 25 |
| I read the news papers: | 16 |
| I read 'my' party's manifesto: | 7 |
| I read all the party manifestos: | 28 |
| Africa by Toto: | 18 |
Closed
@Tattooed_Mummy
None of the above. With 30+ parties contesting the election I can't read all of them. If their leaders say interesting things, I try to read the manifestos of their parties to make a short list, and try to follow news of them and pick the most attractive among those. When their leaders make idiotic statements, I don't bother to read their manifestos.
@hayesstw I'm lucky if we have 3 to choose from locally. But during the years in the run up, ie from now, I do start reading them. It's so obvious some people only rely on the bits the news media report on. I find that so frustrating.
@Tattooed_Mummy my behaviour doesn't really fit your scheme - I read bits of a few manifestos!
But I actually voted tactically and against my usual party in an effort to reduce what was clearly going to be a Labour landslide! (I felt dirty doing so.)
The climate has gone bonkers here in Germany. Not sure if it’s winter or summer. Green leaves, sunny days. But it’s dark early and the temperature is barely in the mid-teens.
The luggage check in staff are doing their best with a hacked together system (cables everywhere!) so they can print bag labels.
British Airways have flown out extra staff to try and coordinate the whole thing. Took us maybe half an hour to get our bags sorted, other airline desks are not coping so well. 😬
Now in the rather long security line. Not sure if that’s related to the vMUSE hack or just normal here.
Edit: I broke the thread again by mistake. Prior thread: https://cyberplace.social/@GossiTheDog/115242040984922549
Jaguar Land Rover have extended their car production shutdown for at least another week: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15kpxnn2p2o
There’s a curious and unsourced line at the end of the BBC article: “JLR is currently taking the lead on support for its own supply chain, rather than any state intervention.”
If so, why are suppliers laying off staff and calling for government intervention?
@GossiTheDog Stop trying to peek behind the curtain, Kevin, and just accept what big companies say at face value!
@GossiTheDog Manglement 102: never let a good crisis go to waste, you ALWAYS call for government support. And clamor that taxes are too high at the same time.
@GossiTheDog Because, even if JLR cover the costs for their suppliers, it's in the suppliers interests to lay off staff and keep the money? The money is needed to repay creditors who are calling in loans? Because those suppliers in turn have thier suppliers to pay? If JLR stop paying, or go bust, the suppliers need enough reserves to survive and restart later so laying off staff now might make sense.
Jaguar Land Rover have no cyber insurance https://www.theinsurer.com/cyber-risk/news/exclusive-jaguar-land-rover-failed-to-secure-cyber-insurance-deal-ahead-of-2025-09-23/
@GossiTheDog
Well, the contracts of the insurers are written in a way, that they are not going to pay, if the IT is a screwed up mess.
@GossiTheDog I don’t understand how that’s even possible.. I mean.. I know how it’s possible - you just don’t buy the insurance but I don’t understand how JLR could have a CTO/CIO who thought that was a sensible play! There’s only two of us at my business.. even we have cyberinsurance..
I'm Liverpool based so have neighbours and friends who work there and they are still seeing this as just some time off, I don't think they realise this genuinely could lead to job cuts across all roles, it's going to impact them financially for a long time
Peter Kyle and Chris McDonald met JLR’s CEO and senior executives at its Gaydon headquarters to discuss latest situation.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministers-meet-jlr-bosses-and-supply-chain-companies-to-help-secure-future-of-car-industry
Robert Peston, who was the first to report on the government's bailout of banks in the 2008 financial crisis, reports the UK government is considering bailing out JLR's suppliers by effectively becoming the lender of last resort - by buying parts off suppliers, and then reselling them to Jaguar Land Rover.
In effect the UK government will become JLR's supplier's customer.
https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/how-the-government-plans-to-support-jaguar-land-rover-suppliers
@GossiTheDog That seems sensible to me. JLR's money keeps a large number of small and medium sized businesses running, many of them in parts of the country where there is relatively little opportunity to find other similar customers especially at short notice.
so the hackers have essentially part rebooted British Leyland 😁
@vfrmedia @losttourist @GossiTheDog Only all the parts falling off the overpriced obsolete car will be of Indian design instead of British, and instead of being killed by Japan they'll be killed by China.
If anybody is wondering, I took a tour of JLR's network border last night - everything is still offline, except for https://wslx.jlrext.com/ (single factor login), some routers running SSH to the internet, NTP and Fortigate firewalls with open ports to internet.
The BBC reports “Senior government figures are concerned about a pattern of cyber attacks on UK institutions and businesses, such as the British Library, Marks & Spencer, and the Co-op.”
They should be. We’ve got to collectively work together to defuse the ransomware economy - even if that means repositioning security industry incentives.
We’ve also got to be deeply honest about where the challenges are coming from - which is not just Russia, but at home in the UK.
@GossiTheDog time to externally regulate software dev?
Beyond PCI and industry specific regulations etc, it's a Wild West 🤠 you can't legally shake your doormat in the street after 8am, but any chum with a magic picture box can roll out a Web app with more security holes than the punch cards it was written on 🤪
Self-regulation continues to fail, sadly, much to the chagrin of proponents like Uncle Bob. I'm surprised that the breached masses aren't marching in demand for it quite frankly 🤔
@GossiTheDog Oh, the true costs are coming to light of the holy trinity of Microsoft Office, Windows, and Active Directory, with the cloud as the catalyst.
The FT has figured out JLR have no insurance.
I'm not sure they'll take the full cost of recovery though - since the government is likely bailing out their key suppliers.
https://www.ft.com/content/c301e78a-38e7-4818-b367-14af85130c61
For those who haven't been following JLR in detail, key chain of events:
1) JLR outsource key IT and infosec functions to TCS, approved by 1x director and 2x NEDs on both JLR and TCS boards
2) JLR transfer staff by TUPE to TCS
3) TCS lay off transferred UK staff, including cyber risk and governance and cyber monitoring
4) record profits for a decade
5) got hacked
6) company stops functioning
7) get government to bail out their key suppliers (in progress)
@GossiTheDog so outsource all the liability and then you can just get the government to bail you out when shit does happen, while all the shareholders and directors get paid big bucks for "saving money".
Got it.
@GossiTheDog given the shared ownership I hope the execs involved get charged with fraud along with whatever is appropriate for their obvious neglect of fiduciary duty
JLR have some of its IT systems back online. Production is still halted. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0q75q4l87no
I can’t see anything internet facing back online. Looks like they have bits of SAP back for supplier payment of historic orders.
If you’re wondering how JLR’s parent company, Tata Motors, is getting on - share price is up over the month. Investors don’t really care that a large part of the org shut down as they know the UK taxpayer will prop it up.
@GossiTheDog And then there's this, too. Shareholders don't give a damn if your products take down whole airports.
The Chair of the Business and Trade Committee, Liam Byrne MP, has today written to TCS asking probing questions about the attacks on Co-op, Marks and Spencer and Jaguar Land Rover. https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/49627/documents/264574/default/
Personally I think the UK is going to be one to watch now, as if I was an e-crime threat actor - I’d zero in on the UK.
Orgs have shown they will pay, teens getting in and poor MSPs shows poor security practices, the NCA won’t tell the ICO (data regulator) too around what actually happened, and the government will bail out orgs financially and provide IR help while they recover.
It’s all of the wrong messages being broadcast. Strap in.
If you look at the NCSC UK too, their remit is to help make the UK the safest place to do business..
but if you look at the general output lately, it’s quantum stuff and firewall espionage stuff. They’re good people but it feels too close to GCHQ, and so too far removed from the operational reality on the ground.
@GossiTheDog on that point, what's your thoughts on Cyber Essentials demanding patching everything with CVSS *base score* > 7 within 14 days? I can see some logic, but it also feels a bit counterproductive to prohibit the use of temporal and environmental etc.
@GossiTheDog we have also recently released (last week) a buyers guide for external attack surface management - https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/easm-buyers-guide-now-available - d
we also continue to push forward on Share & Defend too etc.
all of which are intended to protect the many and reduce the easy wins.
My view - saying the recent incidents should be a wake up call isn’t moving the needle enough in business.
So a lever is, if JLR need bailing out, put the PM on TV to announce it, explain why and the context of attacks on UK institutions, and announce paying all extortion attempts will be outlawed by the end of parliament. It would send shockwaves through business and force real resiliency planning.
@GossiTheDog surely some kind of insurance coverage could be a requirement for these organizations? they don't want to spend on their own infrastructure, they can pay higher premiums.
The Times (paywalled) reports JLR plan to restart some production in just over a week - "puts suppliers on notice for production at its Wolverhampton engine works to resume on October 6".
The prior update was production suspended until October 1st, so I imagine that is slipping.
Government to guarantee £1.5bn loan to Jaguar Land Rover directly https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro
@GossiTheDog why do they get the money when JLR are owned by an Indian company? Especially when you remember they were abandoned by the government when they were owned by the British.
@GossiTheDog "loan money to JLR to protect the employees of their suppliers" is absolute galaxy brain thinking.
There’s a bit on TCS outsourcing of key roles at JLR here. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/26/suspected-weak-link-in-jaguar-land-rover-ms-hacks/
Jaguar Land Rover has sought £2 billion in emergency funding from global banks as the carmaker tries to ease the financial strain of cyber incident.
The funding is separate from a £1.5 billion loan, provided by a commercial bank and guaranteed by UK Export Finance, that the carmaker will repay over five years.
MPs are now saying Jaguar Land Rover may need more government invention on top of the existing £1.5bn help https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62zggj69e0o
@GossiTheDog Prime example of how to profit off of failure by doing literally nothing.
"How do I fail up?"
"Just wait"
JLR say "some sections" of their manufacturing will restart in the coming days. Network border all still offline, btw.
Obviously, it's going to be interesting to see the long term implications of all of this.
The next time there's a big ransomware incident in the UK (and there will be, as there's no real plan about how to deal with it), there's going to be calls for government financial intervention (via taxpayers) and NCSC to do incident response etc. Cyber resiliency for board = demand support when IT goes wrong.
@GossiTheDog
1) There will be one (big ransomware incident) even if there's a real plant about how to deal with it. Threat actors don't care about plans - they hit everything that has money and is vulnerable. Often even if it doesn't have money.
2) Government intervention in the free market is socialism. The government shouldn't bail out JLR, or banks, or whatever. Let them fail and be replaced by more resilient companies. Now everybody else will demand bailouts too.
A senior civil servant refused to sign off on Saturday's announcement of financial support for Jaguar Land Rover, the government did a rare overrule of them and proceeded anyway. https://www.ft.com/content/33d91816-514f-4da1-b6dd-abedbc21df61
JLR UK has been offline for so long they've gone from 400+ devices on Shodan to about 40
From network border monitoring, I can see JLR have been working to get sections of their on prem services (behind FortiGate firewalls) back online this weekend, I’m guessing Monday is when more substantial restoration begins.
There we have it, JLR starting to phase back manufacturing. Externally it looks like they’ve managed to restore some systems.
JLR have restored some production at several sites, and are working to financially support some suppliers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5g6683p8o
@GossiTheDog went through the thread here, but didn't find a clear answer - do we know how attackers got their initial foothold into JLR?
Sounds like, if no, the obvious guess would be the same way M&S and Co-Op got hit since they were also using TCS?
@GossiTheDog @sawaba also interested if anyone heard if a random was paid? I didn't hear anything come out and wonder if this was just a destructive attack
The ongoing cyber incident at Jaguar Land Rover has cost £2bn so far according to the CMC, who are credible.
JLR do not have any cyber insurance (not that it would help much as they all have policy limits far below that).
I think the NCSC should probably release some details about what happened at JLR as I think it would help orgs defend, and help focus the minds of boards.
There’s 100% orgs out there thinking they were dealing with Russia’s elite intelligence unit, who they’d just pay off. Imagine, in fact, you’re in a fight with Mr. Bean.
@GossiTheDog the minds of boards are already focused on the outcome: if you’re big and important enough then the government will bail you out when you ignore basic cybersecurity protection measures and all your company’s computers stop
(Reuters) - Ratings agency S&P Global said on Thursday it is downgrading the outlook of India's Tata Motors, opens new tab to 'negative' on "slow recovery" of its UK unit, Jaguar Land Rover, which was hit by a cyber attack earlier this year.
@GossiTheDog good to see some market-based financial consequences here. It doesn’t seem to happen as often as it should.
OTOH if JLR had "cyber" insurance, the insurance company would likely have forced them to lift their game before the great pwn..
@GossiTheDog This is just... wow.
1. Big, obviously system critical company gets sold to foreign corpo behemoth.
2. Critical roles in security get outsourced overseas to said corpo behemoth.
3. Behemoth fails to perform duties of said roles.
4. Company gets pwned.
5. Company wants bailout.
6. Government gives 3.5 billion bucks to company (tbc).
@GossiTheDog there needs to be a whole lot more focus on resiliency and business continuity.
Too much focus on prevention and detection, not enough on recovery.
@GossiTheDog we’re in for some chop for sure..
We’ve gone from 3 lines of defence and skills-based hiring to “let the cheapest bidder run our identity service and we’ll cross our fingers that they really do background checks and basic awareness training”
Also, cyber resilience?
We’re seeing teenagers directly skew the UK economy…
Nice work NCSC etc …
When you don’t really know who manages your stuff, grants access to your stuff, backs your stuff up or protects your stuff… you’ve outsourced responsibility whilst remaining entirely accountable
The threat actor ecosystem is largely driven by financial reward… which makes these supply chain watering holes irresistible…
@GossiTheDog I can’t wait to see this story play out all over again, but with AI as the outsourcing target
@GossiTheDog @anilmc don't TCS and JLR have the same parent? Certainly can't be helping TCS reputation. Don't they have a few UK public sector contracts too?
@craignicol @anilmc they’re owned by Tata, and yes TCS are absolutely huge. Eg they’re Microsoft’s helpdesk.
@GossiTheDog If TCS were in charge of cybersecurity would it not be their responsibility to hold insurance? If I was outsourcing stuff like this I’d want the whole shebang to be included in the contract.
@GossiTheDog Just In Time delivery means that's not going to work for very long, as neither the supplier or JLR have anywhere to store multiple weeks of back logged parts.
So they'll end up paying to not make things
@GossiTheDog JLR can afford to buy them directly. It's just more taxpayer money wasted on idiots who can't do their own job properly.
Just let JLR buy the suppliers they need. They have the money and they have no choice.
@GossiTheDog at this rate it seems you’re doing a disservice to your shareholders by not ransacking your IT services and having a massive outage.
@GossiTheDog is this a bad thing? I thought the general view in the industry was that cyber insurance is largely a waste of money and a checkbox ass covering exercise as they find you doing something dumb to get breached and don’t pay but that’s how most places get breached.
@sam How did the sightseeing go?
David Heinemeier Hansson definitely joined the Stormcloaks in Skyrim. https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem
@GossiTheDog see? Ya'll just should've sticked to plain #C. All these next big language prophets and "leading figures" are a bunch of digital sects and snake oil peddlers. When I actually have seen #ruby project for the first time, I was racing to get myself rid of it (cause of ruby, not project). Geez. But hey, ashes on my head, I still like good ol' #perl over #python any given day. And now, let the barrage begin. Don't be shy
@GossiTheDog
> Perhaps if enough of those in positions of power call him out on his bullshit he’ll at at least follow his own advice and keep his politics to himself.
This nails it.
You see the right wing complaining about tech people being vocal on politics when those are left leaning. But they can't shut up about their own right wing politics.
Woo! Bluefin on hackernews!
@jorge Would appreciate a reply to users' concern about 3rd-party repos.
Mm three issues so far in GNOME 49 on Ubuntu 25.10:
1. GDM scaling does not match the desktop, it was 125% but I set it to 100% but GDM didn't match, fix:
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/gnome-login-menu-on-wrong-screen/74154/2
2. Pressing the Super key does not setup the search box so you have to click on it to start typing.
3. Flatpaks do not work due to this issue again:
@sam Ubuntu is the go to for this device as it actually has an arm64 ISO that works, I think I need a Fedora install for how they have their arm64 setup. It's either this or pmOS which I know more about rpm then apk.
With everything going on in the world it’s nice to escape into a (vaguely) possible future where the universe might be a more positive and accepting place.
I’m sure it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but for me it’s comforting exactly like a perfect cup of tea…
@sam I really like Becky Chambers' books. I am now reading the second _Monk and Robot_ book: _A Prayer for the Crown-shy_ and it also drips with positivity and comfort.
To celebrate Hackers 30th I present Plymouth boot screens
@mainframed767 having flashbacks to eons ago where @mjg59 and I hung out on the couch while he reverse engineered an old amiga disk image to extract the zebra he definitely recognized and remembered the exact year/month magazine they used as an asset for one of the screens in the club. I'd turned it into a GIF/plymouth bootsplash that I ran for like 5 years 😆
Steve Taylor (LeedsBeckettU) identifies five stages in becoming a racist:
a lack of security & identity prompts desire to affiliate with a group;
groups solidify themselves by identifying an 'other';
any empathy with the 'other' is denied;
all 'others' are lumped together & depersonalised;
the 'others' are then identified as scapegoats for failings that are driven by wider social processes.
Not sure this is anything really new but it's clear & plausible.
#racism
https://theconversation.com/racism-isnt-innate-here-are-five-psychological-stages-that-may-lead-to-it-264391
@ChrisMayLA6 By extension it follows that racism is only one of many ism’s that emerge from the maladaptive behaviour. We call it racism because the particular focus is the human construct of race but I would contend that antisemitism, sexism, ageism, disablism, homophobia and transphobia are all different foci for the same thing. We really ought to have a name for the inciting socio-psychological maladaptation and seek to treat the root as well as the specific problem.
@christineburns @ChrisMayLA6 Well… its root is simple… ‘economics’… We’ve been marketing our social structures more and more. Individual and group differences are the main drive for companies to sell their products. It’s mostly the same product in case of healthcare, energy, housing, education and even entertainment. So marketing divides us…
@christineburns @ChrisMayLA6 differentism. Hating someone because they are different from you in some way
@christineburns @ChrisMayLA6 Bob Altermayer's work on the authoritarian follower personality type nails it—the one thing they all have in common is they want certainty at any cost, and are fearful of what they don't understand.
OH MY FUCKING GOD
PSA for anyone who interacts with US Woodworking Online Content while Living Outside The USA: “600 grit” is not “P600”, but, like, “P1200”.
THERE’S A SEPARATE IMPERIAL (sorry, US Standard) UNIT FOR SANDPAPER GRIT
i’m so fuckin steamed right now